Magdalenian, Ice-Age And Ancient Ancestors Tour(S) ~ The Ones That Got Away

The itinerary, story and the blog are just forming… Any suggestions, requests?

It is never too soon to plan and this would be the same trip as begun before, but which fell to the wayside. The plan was French spas and Pyrenees cave artists and then the train to the East. The Balkans with Croatia and Bosnia: Pyramids and Cave Art and then Anatolia – Turkey! And I had to see if a side trip could be made to the Lignite Mine in Greece – or rather the archaeological site near the Lignite mine.

These tours are for all haplogroups or all ages and eras – they must be, because every haplogroup has either a haplogroup ancestor or an ancestors’ cousin group – and since we now know how far and wide people traveled, then we must embrace more of this tiny world of ours.

We can take and use our known sequences to plan tours – but keep in mind all the ancestors; with pedigree collapse (see below) we really can all claim most early humans.


Pieces of previously unknown information about the cave art are…

– they – the artists, and their communities did not live in caves, and there were very few human figures.

See the story gathering of the Sorcerer in the contents. I am a bit resentful there were only male sorcerers – I think – we ladies are the best sorceresses.

The dates that we heard in this ancient-ancestors tour of the cave art in southern France and northern Spain included work by peoples from recent times – less than 10,000 YBP (years before present) and going back well past 30,000 years ago.

Cro-Magnon man was discovered very near our recent tour area, and of course our ancestors the Neanderthals also lived there. So did so many of our ancestors reaching back in time.

We are not seeking our ancestors from just one haplogroup – we are descended from all haplogroups. I pity the folks who only learn one haplogroup. (Certainly we love – adore and even revere – our project administrators who have meticulously learned about specific  haplogroups and even specific branches of a specific haplogroup.)

The folks lived in Rock Shelters

The archaeology of the cave floors showed remnants of sometimes elaborate art studios for the production of the art galleries – but no habitation. Near all the caves there are rock shelter where the folks used overhangs at the sides of mountains for their homes. See the blog coming in contents of the Rock Shelter near Les Eyzies.


The ones yet to visit – the caves of the east! The caves of our ancestors’ ancestors!

Romualdova cave in Croatia

First prehistoric figurative cave art in Balkans

The man with the photos:

The question of Bosnia



The art in Turkey is also missed by many with so many other great things to see and do. –


The southern France Caves – off the beaten track but a heartbreak to miss!

The Cave of Niaux is located in the Niaux commune, Ariège département in south-western France as part of a wider geological system that includes the Sabart Cave and Lombrives Cave in the hill of Cap de la Lesse de Bialac. Wikipedia
Did you knowNiaux Cave, or la Grotte de Niaux is one of the most famous prehistoric caves in Europe.
and Don’s maps turns up again
Dorres, France

Andorra la Vella

david 2019 phone 280

From the museum at Lascaux IV 🙂

The DNA can be followed across the world

But locating the remains?


Pedigree Collapse

This was written about someone from Europe or the UK but this would be true for every population on earth.

“…The mathematics of descent has fascinated many people. “If we could go back and live again in all of our two hundred and fifty million arithmetical ancestors of the eleventh century,” Henry Adams wrote in 1904 of those with Norman-English blood, “we should find ourselves doing many surprising things, but among the rest we should certainly be ploughing most of the fields of the Contentin and Calvados; going to mass in every parish church in Normandy; rendering military service to every lord, spiritual or temporal, in all this region; and helping to build the Abbey Church at MontSaint- Michel.” And, more recently, the sociobiologist Edward O. Wilson has written, “The gene pool from which one modern Briton has emerged spreads over Europe, to North Africa, the Middle East, and beyond. The individual is an evanescent combination of genes drawn from this pool, one whose hereditary material will soon be dissolved back into it.”…”

The Mountain of Names

Great Wiki article about the skeletons and the few that have been sequenced.


The lineage of EEMH contributes substantially to the modern populations indigenous to Europe. EEMH populations during the Last Glacial Maximum were probably confined to refugia, associated with the Solutrean and Gravettian cultures. From there, Europe was re-peopled during the Holocene climatic optimum. The genetic contribution of these populations to modern Europeans is dubbed “West European Hunter-Gatherer” (WHG). The identification of the WHG component in modern populations is based on the analysis of the genome of a Mesolithic hunter-gatherer buried c. 8000 years ago in the Loschbour rock shelter in Müllerthal, near HeffingenLuxembourg.[note 3]

According to Fu et al. (2016), the mesolithic WHG lineage (dubbed the “Villabruna Cluster”) already contains post-LGM admixture from the Near East and Caucasus, ending the period of isolation in EEMH of c. 37 to 14 ka.[note 4]

The WHG populations mixed extensively with the expanding Early European Farmers (EEF) populations during the European Neolithic.[51]

In terms of unipaternal lineages, EEMH were descended from the patrilineal Y-DNA haplogroups Haplogroup IJ and C1,[note 5][6] and maternal mt-DNA haplogroup N (and descendant haplogroups R and U).[note 6] Y-haplogroup IJ likely arose still in Southwest Asia. haplogroup I emerged about 35 to 30 ka, either in Europe or West Asia. Y-haplogroup K2a* (K-M2308) is associated with Central Asia, found in Siberian Ust’-Ishim man, but also in the Proto-Aurignacian Oase 1 fossil (Romania). Mt-haplogroup U5 arose in Europe just prior to the LGM, between 35 and 25 ka.

Bichon man“, an Azilian (early Mesolithic) skeleton found in the Swiss Jura, was found to be associated with the WGH lineage. He was a bearer of Y-DNA haplogroup I2a and mtDNA haplogroup U5b1h.[22]

Cueva de l’Avellaner G in spain


Nature preserve in Spain Address17173 Les Planes d’Hostoles, Girona, Spain



Ancient samples Y-DNA

Carlos Quiles’s data, shared and updated by Hunter Provyn, and mapped by Med Karim Rouiss

This below is one sample of almost 1,000 on this wonderful website – everyone needs to visit there and enjoy this marvelous work! Everything you need to loate ancient DNA for your ancestors tours.


Object-ID Ave03
OrigLat 42.06
OrigLong 2.54
Haplogroup G
notes-Y haplogroup G2a
Y-New G2a
mtDNA haplogroup H3
Y-Simple G2a
Y-Simple2 G2a
SNPs in autosomes  
Source Lacan2011b
MeanBC-AD+ -5,050.00
StartRangeBC-AD+ -5,100
EndRangeBC-AD+ -5,000
CalBCmean_simple 650
CalBStop_simple 601
CalBCbot_simple 799
CalBUst_top 39,900
CalBUst_bot 40,000
Date (95% CI) 7000 yBP
Age Estimation  
Simplified_Culture Epicardial
Culture/Grouping for Beaker-associated individuals Epicardial Culture
Label Spain_EMN
Location Avellaner cave, Cogolls, Les Planes d’Hostoles, La Garrotxa

Epicardial Culture – Ancient DNA Analysis of 8000 B.C. Near Eastern Farmers Supports an Early Neolithic Pioneer Maritime Colonization of Mainland Europe through Cyprus and the Aegean Islands

Places to stay:
Hotel Restaurante El Ventós
4-star hotel
AddressCtra. de Sant Iscle de Colltort S/N, 17174 Sant Feliu de Pallerols, Girona, Spain

The saga:


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